Subject: #1(2) TRAVELLER digest 239
Date: 95-03-30 17:23:45 EST
From: traveller@mpgn.com
Sender: traveller@mpgn.com
Reply-to: traveller@mpgn.com
To: traveller@mpgn.com (Multiple recipients of list)

Mail Split By Gateway

------- cut here --------
			    TRAVELLER Digest 239

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Replies, especially to Mr. Long.
	by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
  2) Re: TRAVELLER digest 238
	by muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com (John Kovalic)
  3) Reply to the Reply to Mr. Long
	by LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
  4) Imperial BLT to go!
	by "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
  5) Cogs & Dogs, Cats & Rats
	by eclipse@ultranet.com (Mark Urbin)
  6) Re: Replies, especially to Mr. Long.
	by rwm@MPGN.COM (Rob Miracle)
  7) RE: Navy Warfare
	by "Salisbury, Tim" <salisbury@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>
  8) RC Uniforms Style
	by Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
  9) Vampire Kingdom....
	by "Salisbury, Tim" <salisbury@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>
 10) Supplies for merc campaign
	by "Post, D L (Dan)" <PostD%HOST2@WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM>
 11) Re: Various things
	by ehenry@Newbridge.COM (Ethan Henry)
 12) Re: Avery Aledon
	by bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
 13) ai life
	by Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 22:39:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Replies, especially to Mr. Long.
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.950329211018.2900B-100000@hubble.sheridanc.on.ca>

From: Jo Grant <Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
> 
> Bob Brown writes:
> 
> >Norris in the true traditions of Imperial Nobles has 
> >a True Daughter to take over, when he is gone, he also has Strephons 
> >clone child kicking around somewhere, who may want to go back to the 
> >Imperium, to get back what is rightfully theirs i.e. The Iridium 
> >Throne,even if it isn't worth much these days.
> 
> Hoo boy. I had missed that one. Now, it seems to me that
> a marriage between Ms Norris and Master Strephon would be
> the political opportunity of the century that couldn't be
> missed. Is the Strephon clone the official Heir? The Norris
> clone is, isn't she?
> 
> It seems obvious these two's fate is written in the Stars.

Ha ha ha! THIS party meeds to be crashed, perferably by folk from the RC...

> Has this been made note of anywhere or has it been left
> to the gentle reader to deduce the obvious?

Stop it, you're turning me into a republican!
(As if Chuck and Di haven't finished the job yet...)

And surely, Avery can find SOMEONE more pleasant to look at for the rest of 
his life...

======
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

> 
>  Ah.
>  For months I've listened to TMLers and ex-TMLers (and XTMLers) bitch
> and whine about Virus. Now it's my turn to tell you that the alternative
> would probably have been WORSE. Our beloved Spinward Marches would have
> been scrambled so badly as to make the 5th Frontier War as nothing
                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^
You mispelled "tempest in a teapot" =8)

> many primal secrets of the Traveller Universe would have stood revealed,
> and the complaining here on the TML would likely still be going at
> pre-XTML levels. The alternate timelines would be as numerous as they are
> now, if not more so.

O.K., O.K., give GDW credit where credit is due: they _DIDN'T_ ram 
Sparklers down our throat's, and the Imperium still has a sporting chance 
to be rebuilt.  

> By comparison Virus is a marvel of organized
> plot design, IMHO, and is much more useful to stories (campaigns, that is)
> placed afterwards.

Silent thanks is given: Old Imperials like me have enough on our plate!

> ps: Is anyone else having problems receiving the TML? I've been having to
>     ftp my TMLs for the last week, while the XTML comes in just fine in the
>     mail. Go Figure.

That's bloody odd.

Yes, someone else earlier asked if the Traveller list is dead, there have 
been so few messages.  Over here, I haven't recieved any Xboat messages in 
quite a while.   

Rod Miracle, where are you?

=======

From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
> 
>    The Sparkler storyline has been classified by GDW as a ``variant``
> which means that it didn`t happen.

Yes, more signs of intelligence from GDW! Let's all sing...
"We're Game Guy's: we _know_ what we're doing!"

=======

From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)

> Aslan and Vargr both got written up for MT - I'd prefer to see supplements
> on aliens that've only been covered in CT first, (K'Kree, Droyne, Zhodani,
> etc).

Too true... you are in the right, but my heart's still in Regina...

=======

From: LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Some Common Courtesy, Please

> 
> Date sent:  29-MAR-1995 19:32:06 
> 
> Fellow Traveller Players:
> 
> 	I would dearly appreciate it if, when I write to the list, there be 
> at least some acknowledgement of the posting.

Welcome to the Club of the Attention-Deprived!

Speaking as a mediocre TML Personality (not as legendary as Cynthia or 
Wildstar, but more well-known than the average silent TML'er), it seems 
that *you* want to start fresh and interesting new discussions, banter 
with the OldTimers, have your wrath feared across _both_ List's, and 
generally be Big Man on Campus.

O.K., so what does it take?  Well, perferably you should have been here 
at least a year before the List crashed back in about last September.  
The Collapse is the great divide between 

The OldTimers (ie. people who apparently have been playing the game 
  since Reagan's first term), who usually only post rarely (and who are 
  missed:  Glenn noted a while ago that the List suffer's for their absence)

and...

The YoungBloods (ie. people who have been posting to the List only since 
  after the Collapse),who are simply not as steeped in Traveller lore as 
  the OldTimers (Though some of us are pretty good in the sciences, and I 
  do what I can with politic's, personalities, adventures, and worlds)  

Now, the best way to be taken seriously in (X)TML is NOT to repost good 
articles, but instead to write up new ones.  Bring up new issues, or at 
least old issues in a new light.  Spend some time writing up adventures: 
refine the adventure, and post it: it doesn't have to be huge, just as long 
as it's good.  Design new worlds and societies, for the Classic, 
Rebellion, or (perferably) the New Era period.  Spend some time 
understanding where Traveller came from, and try to get as much of it's 
great history in your head as your wallet and clock will allow.

When you comment on a line of discussion, try to avoid "me-tooism".  
Strive to understand what's going on, and the core of the controversy.  
Then see if there's something everyone is missing, and point it out.  A 
very good example occured on XTML, where there was a raging fistfight 
over whether the Third Imperium is a Solomani/Vilani split or 99% 
Villani.  Before someone pointed out that the Solomani can (and did) use 
clones to beef up the population, the OldTimers were happly smashing each 
other's brains out over the mathamatically possible rate of population 
growth. ("Would the 200-year lifespan Vilani reproduce as quickly as the 
Solomani?" sticks in my head even today!)  

Note the two-sided sword that earns respect and get's one heard on 
(X)TML -- A: A good grasp of what is actually _possible_ (remember, a lot 
          of folk here have their B.S., Master's, and PhD's: they expect 
          consistency and logic in their game)  One of the major problems 
          of Virus is it's apparent lack of connection with reality, and 
          seemingly "deus ex machina" nature, a problem that - to GDW's 
          credit - has been partly dealt with.  We await "Vampire Ship's" 
          for the definitive explaination of what Virus is, and how it isn't 
          the same thing as pure magic.

           B: A good grasp of Traveller Lore.  The Shot that Ended the 
          Bloodbath used a quote from "Solomani and Aslan" to clinch his 
          argument.  To get the Good Stuff, you need to contact 
          Rodge@cyberspace.com (Rodge Sanger): he has nearly everything 
          for sale (Sorry: NOT the glorious "Vilani & Vargr" aka Cogs & 
          Dogs, or "Aslan & Solomani" aka Rats & Cats).  

It's possible to be heard strictly using A or B, but using both is best.

And what if you aren't a science major, and you don't have a personal 
library of Traveller Material (including the Kr'ee supplement, the book 
that seperates The Boys From The Men)? 

Well, then, first of all you should focus your studies on the New Era: 
the Era is so young that anyone here can become a master of it, if they 
buy everything from GDW regarding it, subscribe to Sword of the Knight's 
"The Traveller Chronicle",_and_ "Challange".  You should also start 
boning up on science and good science fiction works, so you can fence 
with the best.  Also, you should obtain some of the MegaTraveller 
background material (I recommed either "The Rebellion" or 
"Imperial Encyclopedia": you may consider getting the MegaTraveller game.
All of which GDW still has back issues of.), if you want to get more 
background info of the war that led to the Collapse. (say, your 
adventurers are set in Antares Sector, and you need to know why Archduke 
Brzk decided to seccede from the Imperium and create the Antares League).

Finally, what if you are slightly short of financial resources?  Then, 
first, you need to stick with the New Era.  Then, you _need_ to have
   A: The Basic RuleBook
   B: Fire, Fusion & Steel
   C: The World's Builder's Guide
   D: Vampire Ship's (whenever it comes out)
   E: Fire, Fusion & Steel II (again, whenever it comes out) 
This will total to about $120, U.S.
 
With this, you can produce your own universe.  A good grasp of this 
material will aquaint you with the basic _technical_ issues of Traveller. 
(and technical issues is a major subject on (X)TML.)

But what if you are more interested in the softer issues, like politics and 
societies?  Then you want
   A: The Basic RuleBook
   B: Path of Tears
   C: The Alien Sourcebooks (Hiver + whatever has been recently released)
   D: The Regency Sourcebook (what *I'm* waiting for)

And if you want to concentrate on military issues?
   A: The Basic Rulebook
   B: Striker II (Land combat)
   C: Fire, Fusion & Steel (to make all those gorgeous grav tanks)
   D: Smash & Grab
   E: Brilliant Lancers (starship combat boardgame)
   F: Battle Riders (as above, but for fleet combat)

and it would be good if you can get "Trillion Credit Squadron" and "High 
Guard", both from classic traveller.  Great stuff for Subsector-wide to 
Sector-size wargaming and Fleet Actions. 
 
> I would appreciate it if you could at the least scrible 
> a little something to show that what I had to say got a least a glancing
at. 

(See above.)

>  I however understand, if you ignored it because it was part of a topic 
> that had become stale, and boring, Like the argument over VIRUS,

Yes, but Virus still stinks.  SOme hate it for technical reasons.  I hate 
it because it makes the Traveller universe much less complex and a lot 
more duller (and low-tech, too!).  Also, It just isn't as grand as 
the pre-Rebellion Imperium. 

> 
> Stay Frosty, 
> 

And you stay cool, too, Mr. Long.

I hope that I've been of some help.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
"Preserve what we created, Norris, and remember what we stood for."
                               - Strephon, 179-1126

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA

------------------------------------------------------------------------------



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 21:52:39 -0600
From: muskrat@msn.fullfeed.com (John Kovalic)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 238
Message-ID: <199503300352.VAA04626@fullfeed.msn.fullfeed.com>


>>  Another book on my wish list is FF&S II.  This is the manual that covers
>>some of the vital stuff that the first one missed.  "Wet" ship design,
>>robots, primitive transport & genetic engineering are the topics that leap
>>to mind.  A good add on would be "liftwood" rules for "wet" ship design
>>and Ether Propeller rules.   That should please the pith helmet crowd
>>with only a page or two.  A release of FF&S (I), that is upto date with all
>>current errata and includes black powder *and* updated plasma/fusion
>>rules would be welcome also.

Call me the voice of dissent. As a non-mathematician, FFS is as
incomprehensible to me as the Virus seems to so many out here. I envy
people - honestly - who can pick it up and produce a starship in a day or
two. I'm still working on conversions from MT days. There must be more than
a handful of us out here who would put FF&S II at the END of their wish
list.

It strikes me more small, stand-alone folio adventures, a bit more detailed
than those in Challenge, akin to the classic Traveller Adventure line, or
even Arrival Vengeance, would help pull in a few souls who may be daunted
by the tomelike FF&S - not that I don't for a minute doubt its
wonderfulness. As soon as I understand it all (say, sometime before the
rise of the Fourth Imperium), I'll likely be calling for FF&S as loud as
anyone.

John K.

           /\
****//\\**********************************************************
       // * \\                    ----------------------
     //        \\                  The Servants of Kovalic
   //______\\                ----------------------
   -------------
Hat Trick*Tornado*Read My Lips*Peace in Our Time*Market Manipulation*Bigger
Business*Murphy's Law*Rewriting History*Deasil Engine*Energy Crisis*Tax
Reform*France*Japan*Cable TV*Fraternal Orders*L-4 Society* Multinational
Oil Companies*Germany*Israel* Liquor Companies*.......Ours, alllllll OURS!
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! (THWACK!) Sorry.
*******************************************************************



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 29 Mar 1995 23:27:34 -0500 (EST)
From: LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Reply to the Reply to Mr. Long
Message-ID: <01HOQ59L36K29JJJG1@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu>


>Welcome to the Club of the Attention-Deprived!

Well personally, this is not the way I invisoned interacting with other 
players, this list sure could learn a few things from the Shadowrun List, 
after all were all in this for fun :)

>Speaking as a mediocre TML Personality (not as legendary as Cynthia or 
Wildstar, but more well-known than the average silent TML'er), it seems 
that *you* want to start fresh and interesting new discussions, banter 
with the OldTimers, have your wrath feared across _both_ List's, and 
generally be Big Man on Campus.

Not quite what I want is to simply have those people who seem to think they 
can crawl inside of the heads of all players realize, that they are not the 
end-all and be all of TRAVELLER.  ;)


>The OldTimers (ie. people who apparently have been playing the game 
  since Reagan's first term), who usually only post rarely (and who are 
  missed:  Glenn noted a while ago that the List suffer's for their absence)

and...

The YoungBloods (ie. people who have been posting to the List only since 
  after the Collapse),who are simply not as steeped in Traveller lore as 
  the OldTimers (Though some of us are pretty good in the sciences, and I 
 > do what I can with politic's, personalities, adventures, and worlds)  


Don't be so quick to assume, only those of you who were here befor the 
crash are the only ones who have been playing traveller forever.  I for one 
have played every form of traveller that has come through the space lanes.  
Now if you want the high granduer of first edition traveller, then play it,
  I however like the changes to the rules, I feel that the action has 
gotten quite a bit smoother, and I can create a very good flowing story 
line.  Just because you don't like the present ERA of traveller dosen't 
mean that you couldn't use the new rules but remain faithfull to the 
history of the earlier editions.  i also happen to enjoy the Idea of post 
collapse Star exploration, and I LOVE the RCES (Star Vickings)The idea 
allows me to create a great team enviroment for my players to interact 
under.

> Spend some time understanding where Traveller came from, and try to get as 
> much of it's great history in your head as your wallet and clock will
allow.

As mentioned Above, I already Know traveller's history, I have Read just 
about all of the info that has been, Including the very Rare FASA materials
.I especially loved the Idea of the COACC.

>When you comment on a line of discussion, try to avoid "me-tooism".  

Do I sound Like a Yes Man ;>


>: A good grasp of what is actually _possible_ (remember, a lot 
 of folk here have their B.S., Master's, and PhD's: they expect 
 consistency and logic in their game)  One of the major problems 
 of Virus is it's apparent lack of connection with reality, and 
 seemingly "deus ex machina" nature, a problem that - to GDW's 
 credit - has been partly dealt with.  We await "Vampire Ship's" 
 for the definitive explaination of what Virus is, and how it isn't 
 >the same thing as pure magic.


Damn Aren't we all arrogant, How the hell can we make assumptions, based on 
our present day knowledge on what WILL or WILL NOT be possible.  Hell Go 
back in time, and ask a person using an abacus if they could compute the 
arc for the trajectory of a mortar shell, I bet they couldn't.  Then Tell 
them you have a Simple Machine (ENIAC) that could do the very same thing in 
a limited amount of time, theyd lock you away as a raving lunatic.  We can 
not hope to know what will deffinately be in the future.  Also perhaps a 
point that you are all missing is simply this "Get A Life" :>  It's only a 
game, you play it to escape from reality, not to emerse yourselves in the 
"Absolute" reality of science.  When we get off on one of these It has to 
be absolutely provable Science Kicks, I shake my head and wonder. :(

>           B: A good grasp of Traveller Lore

Already Covered


Well Mr. Plummer (AND I HATE BEING TALKED DOWN TO )  You can see that i 
have a thourough knowledge of Traveller, And all I wanted to find was a 
good resource for possible game knowledge, not a zone for complaining about 
this problem with the scienc, or That problem with the history.  I have 
Been GAMING Since 1980, and I can Not be refered to as a NEWBIE by any 
stretch of some very un-Interesting imaginations.  

To all the others out there wh did not attack me, or my knowledge, I 
appologioze forthis Flame and all the replies it is likely to get.

Stay Frosty,


_______________________________________________________________________________
Jamison J. Long (AKA Neuromancer, Flag Admiral, Jamie)  [{Founder T.E.R.R.A}]
LONG2469@SPLAVA.CC.PLATTSBURGH.EDU or LONG2469@SNYPLAVA.bitnet
 
Alea Iacta est.  (The Die is Cast.)  -Iulius Caesar, upon crossing the
Rubicon.
   {Also the Motto of T.E.R.R.A. [The Embry-Riddle Roleplaying Assoc.]}

=============================================================================

------------------------------

Date:          Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:16:13 +0000
From: "Bob Brown" <Robert.Brown@newcastle.ac.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Imperial BLT to go!
Message-ID: <199503301015.LAA05460@cheviot.ncl.ac.uk>

Thank you to whoever it was for the "baddies from the core" reminder, 
it did jog a few brain cells there, damaged long ago by too much 
bitter and curry. The Primorials havn't been the best idea by DGP, 
but they have come up with some good ones in the past so I think 
the're forgiven. As to whether they are "official" or not; well look 
at the names associated with GDP: Marc Miller, Joe Fugate, Rob 
Caswell & Tom Rodgers. Ring a few bells? Well take a look in the 
credits of the MT books, top of the list M. Miller, so I think that 
what they write is reasonably "official". I don't think that the 
Primodials actually riped the Zhodani appart, merely stretched them 
somewhat.
At the end of the day though, all these ideas are merely avenues that 
we can take our own individual universes down, but I'm for the 
Intergalactic recipe! Grand father for short order chef of the year?

Bob

"Tune in, Turn on, Burn out." A Eldritch (1984). 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 07:01:11 -0500
From: eclipse@ultranet.com (Mark Urbin)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Cogs & Dogs, Cats & Rats
Message-ID: <9503301201.AA20408@remus.ultranet.com>

Somebody got the names mixed up.  It was me who posted about TNE books I'd
like to see, not Derek Wildstar.

  I do have Cogs & Dogs, as well as Cats & Rats (Thanks Crazy Igor!).  I
looking for a 'House Rules' presentation of Vargr and Aslan.
  Loren does read this list.  I'll venture that Derek's last survey of
Traveller campains got the Regency Sourcebook bumped up on the production
schedule.  TNE is supposed to be generic enough to play in the RC era,
rebellion era, or CT era.  The Regency Sourcebook should provide information
applicable to those playing in a Pre-Virus (i.e. Imperial) setting.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
eclipse@ultranet.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.
"[Clinton's] Administration is easily the most reckless in interfering with 
the integrity of Federal investigative agencies since that of Richard Nixon."
   -- NY Times editorial, "White House Ethics Meltdown", 3/4/94
              http://www.ultranet.com/~eclipse/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 08:27:15 -0500
From: rwm@MPGN.COM (Rob Miracle)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Replies, especially to Mr. Long.
Message-ID: <199503301327.IAA12202@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

>From Alvin....
>From: Jo Grant <Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com>
>> ps: Is anyone else having problems receiving the TML? I've been having to
>>     ftp my TMLs for the last week, while the XTML comes in just fine in
the
>>     mail. Go Figure.
>
>That's bloody odd.
>
>Yes, someone else earlier asked if the Traveller list is dead, there have 
>been so few messages.  Over here, I haven't recieved any Xboat messages in 
>quite a while.   
>
>Rod Miracle, where are you?
  ^Rob

I'm here.  I just have been very busy at work and my list-admin and
contribution time have been limited.

If any one is having problems send mail to traveller-request@mpgn.com and we
will see if we can fix it.

Thanks
Rob
--
Rob Miracle
rwm@mpgn.com
"You have a problem?  I have a plan!" -- Anton Devious


------------------------------

Date: 30 Mar 1995 11:17:04 -0500
From: "Salisbury, Tim" <salisbury@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <traveller@MPGN.COM>, traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Navy Warfare
Message-ID: <n1415560228.84251@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>

>perhaps it is just the bias of my military background . . . as a tank =
driver
>i found that simulated and real combat tends to be occuring at a
>rediculously rapid pace.  for this reason i felt that five seconds per =
turn
>would be more than adequate to express ship to ship combat in space.  
>From: jmg141@email.psu.edu (john gardner)

I work for the Army, but I have talked to some Navy men.  Historically =
(WW1 and WW2), navy battles can take HOURS, with hundreds of misses for =
every hit.  This was true until the dawn of guided missles and fighter =
bombers.  In fact, the WW2 vessles had two full crews because battles =
took so long you needed to give the guys time to sleep and eat durring =
the battle.  One of the problem with sci-fi is they still try to show =
fighters and ships simular to WW2 navy, with lumbering ships missing =
often and fast fighters skimming through for close torpedo runs.  A =
better anology might be having fighters trated like PT boats:  fast, but =
under the same limitations as the ships they are fighting.
After WW1, the Battle Cruiser was designed. It was a lightly armored =
cruiser that would be harder to hit due to it's speed.  It was discovered =
very quickly in ww2 that even if one in 200 shots hit is as opposed to 1 =
in 100 shots, without the armor this fewer hits did far more damage and =
was therefor a bad trade.
Anyway, 5 second turns would be silly if you are using WW2 as your =
example of ship combat, but might work for modern one-shot-one-kill =
missle warfare.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 11:24:56 -0500 (EST)
From: Zaidfeld <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
To: TNE Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: RC Uniforms Style
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950330111953.27301F-100000@blue>

Hi,

	A while back, Rob Prior and others on the list were asking about 
the colours and rank designs that are used by the RC.  Well, These 
designs are available via the Reformation Coalition Equipment Guide.  On 
pages 78-84, there are several colour Plates.  If you take a look at 
plates C, E and F you can find the rank and uniform designs.

Hope I helped,

                -Shalom Zaidfeld
----
Toronto, CANADA
Internet: cs911408@ariel.cs.yorku.ca


------------------------------

Date: 30 Mar 1995 11:54:44 -0500
From: "Salisbury, Tim" <salisbury@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>
To: "Multiple recipients of list" <traveller@MPGN.COM>, traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Vampire Kingdom....
Message-ID: <n1415557966.20216@ftdetrck-atmo1.army.mil>


>The Primordials bod about chartered space for a bit, destroying the odd
>vampire fleet olong the way, untill they find the black currtain, where =
they
>are repelled. Having suffered heavy losses they go searching for =
something
>more interesting else where in the Galaxy.
>What do people think ?

>Ewan

Ouch!
First, if the Black Curtain CAN repell a multi-billion ton fleet of TL33+ =
ships, i'm going to be really scared when IT starts to expand..
Second, what little we know of the Pr1mordial, the Ancients may actually =
be of higher tech.  Try to explain to a cave man the difference between a =
TRS 80 and a MAC 8100.  
Chances are the Black Curtain is the Vampire Kingdom, since Lucan had so =
many ships until the end and all these other enemy vessles or doomslayer =
virus ships heading his way, where else would you have a vampire =
Imperium.  Unless Lucan's superweapon program jumped a few tech levels, =
these will still be TL 12 to 15 ships in varying states of disrepair.
Lastly, I dought highly the only super races in the Milky Way (Ancients =
and Primordials) came from the our little corner of the galaxy....
Something from the Gama quadrant anyone?
Again, how would the Imperials know if another empire was located on the =
other side of the Zhodani?  Do you think many Kkree know about the Aslan? =
 Do the Zhodani know much about the Hiver?  And the Imperium is an open =
border for trade compared to the Zhodani border....



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 09:24:00 PST
From: "Post, D L (Dan)" <PostD%HOST2@WLV.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM>
To: Traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Supplies for merc campaign
Message-ID: <2F7AE952@MX.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM>


This is what I worked out for supplies. I used and modified some
data from "How to make war" by dunnigan (excellent book)
                         
          1 Platoon of 40 men           
          1 Day of supplies             
                         
     Percentage     supplies in kg Mult. for volume    Volume in tons
Ammo 0.42      3360 kg              0.5 1.68
Fuel 0.5       4000 kg        1    4    
Food 0.03      240  kg        .5   0.12
Spares    0.05      400  kg        1    0.4  
Total               8000 kg             6.2

I have confirmed that the info is correct though some army sources. Whew!
thats alot of stuff. Clearly local sources of fuel would be important. If 
you
have fusion power divide the fuel supplies by 20.  If you have a large
percentage of laser weapons you could also lower your ammo supplies.
Local ammo sources would be great but what is the local tech level?
You can see that attacking a planet with a hostile enviroment and no
local allies would be a logistic nightmare.
                    Comments?
                    Dan Post
"Quantity has a quality all its own" Stalin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 95 13:12:42 EST
From: ehenry@Newbridge.COM (Ethan Henry)
To: xboat@MPGN.COM, traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Various things
Message-ID: <9503301812.AA08953@ckserver.newbridge.com>

From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

> ps: Is anyone else having problems receiving the TML? I've been having to
>     ftp my TMLs for the last week, while the XTML comes in just fine in the
>     mail. Go Figure.

Hm, nope. TML and XBOAT arrive the their usual psudeo-clockwork fashion,
as always. Do you receive digests or individual articles?

Alvin Plummer wrote:
>From: LONG2469@splava.cc.plattsburgh.edu
>Subject: Some Common Courtesy, Please
>
>> 
>> Date sent:  29-MAR-1995 19:32:06 
>> 
>> Fellow Traveller Players:
>> 
>> 	I would dearly appreciate it if, when I write to the list, there be 
>> at least some acknowledgement of the posting.
>
>Welcome to the Club of the Attention-Deprived!
>
>Speaking as a mediocre TML Personality (not as legendary as Cynthia or 
>Wildstar, but more well-known than the average silent TML'er), it seems 
>that *you* want to start fresh and interesting new discussions, banter 
>with the OldTimers, have your wrath feared across _both_ List's, and 
>generally be Big Man on Campus.

Yes! Me too! Well, no, actually, but I sympathize that sometimes it does
seem that some threads just terminate on one's own articles, when you 
were actually looking for some feedback. And I think you rate above
"mediocre mailing list personality" Alvin - maybe "acknowledged gadfly".

>And what if you aren't a science major, and you don't have a personal 
>library of Traveller Material (including the Kr'ee supplement, the book 
>that seperates The Boys From The Men)? 

Uh, is K'kree that rare? I bought mine mere months ago. Though I am curious 
why it says "Aliens Module 1" on the back and "Alien Module 2" on the
front...
What is the rarest Traveller book I wonder? Roger Sanger says he's still
looking for a copy of Signal GK (I think), doesn't he have, well, everything?

As for building up a Traveller library, if you don't have a CT library now,
don't start. MT can still be had, with a little luck (I got a nearly
complete set of books locally for $40! Some people would rather be rid of
it. Wierd). I'd say, if you're just starting, stick to TNE. Although
it lacks the CT ambiance of bazillions of tiny 30 page black books.

And for actual new thoughts...

I was looking through 101 Vehicles the other day and it mentions one
recon drone which has no pilot, but is instead controlled by a robot
brain. In the preface of the book they make a brief statement about
equating MT computer CPs with robot intelligence points. The ratio they
give is 250 CP (I think) == 1 point of intelligence, giving TL 17 (?)
computers (Model 11) an INT of 4. They described this by saying that
above TL 15 synaptic processors become so reliable that they can be used
in starship computers, which require a lot more reliability than experimental
robot brains. Anyways, by this logic, most starship computers have the 
same capacity for intelligence as a worm or bug - little, if not none.

So, my question is, how can the Virus come along and make your pokey
Model 2/bis into a super-duper highly intelligent Virus computer??
This seems akin to a disease that make earthworms into rocket scientists.
I this Traveller or Star Trek?

At least the gum control war is over,
Ethan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 30 Mar 1995 13:25:45 -0600
From: bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu (STEVEN M BONNEVILLE)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Avery Aledon
Message-ID: <199503301925.NAA08263@starfish.itlabs.umn.edu>

Jo Grant <Jo_Grant.LOTUSINT@crd.lotus.com> wrote:

>missed. Is the Strephon clone the official Heir? The Norris
>clone is, isn't she?

The impression I got from TNE is that Avery (originally seen in the
ARRIVAL VENGEANCE folio) is adopted by Seldrian Aledon, Norris's
female clone.  Since Seldrian was in her mid-twenties and unmarried
(as far as I know) in 1126, Avery is likely her first child and heir.
This could set him up to inherit the duchy of Regina, archduchy of
Deneb, and/or Norris's job as First Regent, probably after Seldrian 
has a chance to run things.  Of course, if either Seldrian or Norris
end up having any natural children, they could end up getting some
of the subsidiary titles.  (I like the idea of a direct descendant
of Norris keeping the duchy of Regina, but the archduchy is probably
tied to the Regent's job.)  In 1200, a very old Seldrian, Avery, or
Avery's kid is probably running the Regency government.

One hot theory that's been bandied about is that Avery is actually a
clone of Strephon's.  The timing is fairly good, since whoever Avery
is, he was born in 1118.  Strephon needed a heir, he definitely wasn't
about to remarry, and the idea of letting one of his clones "become
real" might have appealed to his whimsical side.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@gold.tc.umn.edu>
 

------------------------------

Date: 30 Mar 95 16:21:53 EST
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
To: <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: ai life
Message-ID: <950330212152_100326.446_BHG109-3@CompuServe.COM>

>>  Now, it seems to me that  a marriage between Ms Norris 
and Master Strephon would be  the political opportunity of 
the century that couldn't be  missed. Is the Strephon clone 
the official Heir? The Norris  clone is, isn't she <<

And down the line in TNE times, that might leave a true 
heir to the Fourth Imperium. Shades of Aragorn!

>>  I would dearly appreciate it if, when I write to the 
list, there be   at least some acknowledgement of the 
posting.  I don't mean to seem pushy,   however It seems to 
me as if you are ignoring anything I can add to the   list 
out of hand.  I would appreciate it if you could at the 
least scrible   a little something to show that what I had 
to say got a least a glancing at <<

Maybe what you had to say didn't inspire anyone to respond. 
A lot of my stuff doesn't! If everyone responded to your 
every post by saying "Yeah, I read that" there'd be 
hundreds of useless messages burying anything worth 
reading. It's not a single community on whose behalf one 
person can acknowledge you. If people are interested by a 
message, they'll respond to it because they want to, but 
you have no automatic right to expect a response just 
because a message has been posted. 



-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Hugh Foster [100326,446]                                      |
|                                                               |
| An aetheist is a man who has no invisible means of support.   |
| (John Buchan)                                                 |
-----------------------------------------------------------------



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End of TRAVELLER Digest 239
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